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#1 02-Apr-2016 15:15:33

granty101
Lieutenant General
From: Durham
Registered: 26-Mar-2015
Posts: 1,895

Irish Army on manoeuvres in 1940

I haven't seen this clip before. Hope it's useful for someone.

Grant

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7bdOQ938Lmg


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#2 03-Apr-2016 13:11:31

Rumblestrip
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From: ...where the oatcakes live...
Registered: 25-Jan-2013
Posts: 394

Re: Irish Army on manoeuvres in 1940

Okay that is quite interesting.

Anybody know enough - size, TO&Es, equipment etc. -  to do a primer article for the Journal?

And thinking about it, ignoring counter insurgency, I presume that the army of the Irish Free State and its successor entities has not actually fought in any war. Is that right?

Does it deploy/has it deployed on UN missions?

Cheers

Andrew


¡Vencerán…pero no convencerán!

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#3 03-Apr-2016 13:31:27

Gary
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From: Costa Almeria, Spain
Registered: 16-Mar-2012
Posts: 896

Re: Irish Army on manoeuvres in 1940


"The man who has no sense of history, is like a man who has no ears or eyes"

"Good health is merely the slowest possible rate at which one can die."

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#4 03-Apr-2016 14:59:34

granty101
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From: Durham
Registered: 26-Mar-2015
Posts: 1,895

Re: Irish Army on manoeuvres in 1940

Rumblestrip wrote:

Okay that is quite interesting.

Anybody know enough - size, TO&Es, equipment etc. -  to do a primer article for the Journal?

Not sure about strength or organisation, but the lorries, artillery and armour, (Mainly Rolls Royce armoured cars), should be easily obtainable.

Does anyone make Early WWII Irish, or will it have to be a conversion of existing figures job??

Grant


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#5 03-Apr-2016 17:31:06

Phil_Gray_260
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Registered: 30-Dec-2014
Posts: 77

Re: Irish Army on manoeuvres in 1940

Fascinating view of the mix of kit they had there. I think  MicroMark do a Irish Free State (is that the right term?) list

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#6 04-Apr-2016 12:32:27

GregP
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Registered: 15-Dec-2014
Posts: 600

Re: Irish Army on manoeuvres in 1940

Looked at this footage a couple of months ago, and was tempted, you could use late WW1 Germans if you are happy to ignore the Mausers!?

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#7 04-Apr-2016 13:33:27

granty101
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From: Durham
Registered: 26-Mar-2015
Posts: 1,895

Re: Irish Army on manoeuvres in 1940

GregP wrote:

you could use late WW1 Germans

Could you use early WWII Danish figures, (the uniforms look similar), with German helmeted heads attached??

Grant


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#8 04-Apr-2016 18:03:45

Gary
Brigadier
From: Costa Almeria, Spain
Registered: 16-Mar-2012
Posts: 896

Re: Irish Army on manoeuvres in 1940

Or Polish 10th Brigade (?) Figures, coal scuttles etc.......mix in some EWM pre-war/1940 Brits in tunics too......the 6 wheel a/c's look like the BA-10's etc......not exact but close enough?


"The man who has no sense of history, is like a man who has no ears or eyes"

"Good health is merely the slowest possible rate at which one can die."

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#9 04-Apr-2016 20:07:21

Rumblestrip
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From: ...where the oatcakes live...
Registered: 25-Jan-2013
Posts: 394

Re: Irish Army on manoeuvres in 1940

Thanks for these - very interesting.
Andrew


¡Vencerán…pero no convencerán!

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#10 04-Apr-2016 20:16:38

Rumblestrip
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From: ...where the oatcakes live...
Registered: 25-Jan-2013
Posts: 394

Re: Irish Army on manoeuvres in 1940

Phil_Gray_260 wrote:

Fascinating view of the mix of kit they had there. I think  MicroMark do a Irish Free State (is that the right term?) list

Irish Free State from around 1922 til they declared themselves a Republic, just before the war as I remember. The Irish Free State was a compromise entity to bring about the end of the Irish Civil War. It had an odd relationship with GB as I think the King remained head of state whilst it was largely independent - a bit like the Dominions of the time. I think it had a British Governor as well for at least some of its existence. These vestiges of British power were enough to split the Irish Republican movement into those willing to accept the compromise and those die hard purist republicans.

There was some bizarre law passed in GB in the thirties which allowed the Free State to pare back the rights/controls which Britain maintained over it as a result of the peace agreement and so bit by bit it became a Republic. Eventually simply announced that that was what it was and that it no longer recognised the King as Head of State. I've a feeling it was in the middle of the abdication crisis and the British had bigger fish to fry and so just let it go.

Cheers

Andrew


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#11 05-Apr-2016 10:22:31

GregP
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Registered: 15-Dec-2014
Posts: 600

Re: Irish Army on manoeuvres in 1940

Thanks for the info Andrew, almost sounds like a potential VBCW scenario... maybe some English diehards could have wanted to overturn the Republic and return it to the crown?

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#12 05-Apr-2016 10:40:45

Rumblestrip
Moderator
From: ...where the oatcakes live...
Registered: 25-Jan-2013
Posts: 394

Re: Irish Army on manoeuvres in 1940

GregP wrote:

Thanks for the info Andrew, almost sounds like a potential VBCW scenario... maybe some English diehards could have wanted to overturn the Republic and return it to the crown?

VBCW leaves me absolutely cold, I'm afraid but I think you're right that a plausible colonial-type of foray into Eire (as it had then become by the time frame of VBCW) could be put together by some of the protaganists in that alternate history.

Or possibly more interesting and more plausible (because, again, the British themselves have bigger fish to fry - what with a revolution and everything) an Irish Republican Volunteer force appearing in Britain to back any similar British Republicans? Or Irish Regular army intervention to protect Irish minority communities (Liverpool, bits of Scotland etc.) from persecution by some faction or other. As I say, I don't know about VBCW but I'd put money on at least one of the factions having some bizarre ideology which advocates persecuting minorities.

Cheers

Andrew


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#13 05-Apr-2016 15:31:07

granty101
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From: Durham
Registered: 26-Mar-2015
Posts: 1,895

Re: Irish Army on manoeuvres in 1940

GregP wrote:

maybe some English diehards could have wanted to overturn the Republic and return it to the crown?

The Easter Rising in reverse GregP??

Grant


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#14 05-Apr-2016 16:04:56

bannockburn bhoy
General
From: Glasgow
Registered: 16-Mar-2012
Posts: 2,153

Re: Irish Army on manoeuvres in 1940

Like the way the republicans and those of that ilk were treated in the northern six counties. (which was the reason for the republican split ,the freestaters agreed with a partial republic (minus the six counties ) , whilst the remainder wanted an entirely free republic including the six counties.     and so it goes on...

Last edited by bannockburn bhoy (05-Apr-2016 16:07:18)

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#15 19-Aug-2017 08:45:48

aardvark99
Lance Corporal
Registered: 02-Aug-2017
Posts: 5

Re: Irish Army on manoeuvres in 1940

Thanks for posting the Youtube link, seen part of this film years ago on a tv history programme, nice to see the whole film.

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#16 19-Aug-2017 18:11:00

cartfc
Captain
Registered: 25-Mar-2012
Posts: 277

Re: Irish Army on manoeuvres in 1940

Thanks for that, well worth watching. Got to love the accents in those 40's Pathe newsreels! Not sure the narrators hyperbole matched the footage. The artillery might have been truck mounted, but the guns looked pretty ancient. Anyone know what the low wing monoplanes are near the end? The high wing planes look like Lysanders.

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#17 19-Aug-2017 22:16:05

Seret
Major
Registered: 15-Feb-2016
Posts: 345
Website

Re: Irish Army on manoeuvres in 1940

cartfc wrote:

Anyone know what the low wing monoplanes are near the end? The high wing planes look like Lysanders.

The low wings are Miles Magisters, the high wings are indeed Lysanders.

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#18 20-Aug-2017 06:53:13

dadlamassu
Major General
From: Bonnie Scotland
Registered: 16-Mar-2012
Posts: 1,079
Website

Re: Irish Army on manoeuvres in 1940

Rumblestrip wrote:

Does it deploy/has it deployed on UN missions?
Andrew

The story of Jadotville http://source.southdublinlibraries.ie/b … tville.pdf

The film (not bad but significant items missing)
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt3922798/

on netflix too (or it was)

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#19 05-Sep-2017 08:50:09

corsair1
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Registered: 05-Sep-2017
Posts: 1

Re: Irish Army on manoeuvres in 1940

I've seen  stills/photos from this film, nice to see this short film.

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