Useful stuff for Tunisia 1943

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Fire-at-Will
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Useful stuff for Tunisia 1943

Post by Fire-at-Will »

Some more of my 3D printed tanks, plus an old Matchbox Panzer III reworked as an Ausf.N
Image

The sdkfz 247 is the repaired one scavenged from 3 badly printed ones, the only visible signs now being the rear mudguards. Along with the 15cm sIG 33 B Sfl auf Panzer II it has been on my bucket list to reinforce my DAK for a long time. Providing backup are a pair of Italian Semovente da 90-53.
Image
What's the point of doing one period, when you can do them all.......... In life most people specialise so gradually they know more and more about less and less so eventually they know everything about nothing. I work on a broad front so eventually I'll know nothing about everything.
Richard B.
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Joined: 16 Mar 2012, 06:54

Re: Useful stuff for Tunisia 1943

Post by Richard B. »

Smashing stuff Wil - nice colours too :D

I`m pretty there were no Semovente da 90-53 in Tunisia - at least i`ve never read anything about them??

I believe all the 15cm sIG 33 B Sfl auf Panzer II had already been lost by late `42 also, but a nice addition to a Western Desert Dak force :D

The 247 is just lovely, according to a couple of sourses on the internet one (originally belonging to 21st Panzer) was surrendered to the Allies during the last weeks of the campaign (I have one too) :D
"“Sir with the compliments of my officer, your shooting was excellent – you killed four of our men”!
Un-named Traillieur to an artillery officer at R`Fakah, Morocco, Feb. 29th, 1908
billk
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Joined: 01 Dec 2020, 00:33

Re: Useful stuff for Tunisia 1943

Post by billk »

Now we're talking! Very nice.
The Semovente da 90-53 is odd and so cool and the same time.
Particularly like the Sdkfz 247.
The DB G5 staff car and Marder II over on your other thread are also quite nice additions.
Fire-at-Will
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Re: Useful stuff for Tunisia 1943

Post by Fire-at-Will »

Richard, Wikipedia said the following
In the North African Campaign, the Semovente da 90/53 proved to be an effective weapon and its long range was well suited to the flat and open desert terrain. 24 Semovente 90/53s saw service against the Allies in the 10° Raggruppamento Semoventi, which was stationed in Sicily during the Allied invasion in 1943.
and tanks encyclopedia
The Semovente 90/53 was ready for service before the end of April 1942, just a few weeks after the idea first emerged. Eventually, with the situation fast degrading in Russia, these tank hunters were instead shipped to North Africa, were they found themselves at an advantage, due to the flat landscape and excellent visibility. They soldiered well until the end of the Tunisian campaign, most managing to escape in Sicily. 24 vehicles of the 10° Ragruppamento Semoventi were heavily used during the Allied invasion in 1943.
I've never seen any reference to them being used either, and my main purpose was for Sicily
What's the point of doing one period, when you can do them all.......... In life most people specialise so gradually they know more and more about less and less so eventually they know everything about nothing. I work on a broad front so eventually I'll know nothing about everything.
Richard B.
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Joined: 16 Mar 2012, 06:54

Re: Useful stuff for Tunisia 1943

Post by Richard B. »

I`ve done some digging and feel confident that 10° Ragruppamento Semoventi never got further than Sicily (arriving there in Dec `42).

There only appear to have been Semoventi 75/18s in Tunisia belonging mostly to Centauro Division
"“Sir with the compliments of my officer, your shooting was excellent – you killed four of our men”!
Un-named Traillieur to an artillery officer at R`Fakah, Morocco, Feb. 29th, 1908
Fire-at-Will
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Re: Useful stuff for Tunisia 1943

Post by Fire-at-Will »

A bit more detail found on Lead Adventure Forum
sometime Tank Encyclopedia writes some 'interesting' stuff (like the ROK M60A3... with a nice white sun on it and a three tone camo rather than MRDC... hint hint...!)

As far I am aware no 90/53 made its way to north-africa, at least according to the records of the Italian Army. It happens that a friend of mine did research in the archives on Italian Troops deployed in Tunisia for an osprey-like volume and I was one of the proofreaders... even more suspicious is the claim that some made it back to Italy/Sicily from Tunisia, very little equipment made its way back from there. At least Italian Navy reports never mentions a shipment of Semovente 80/53 back to Italy. With 30 produced you cannot really play around with the numbers. According to Nicola Pignato (one of the foremost italian expert on armoured vehicles) 30 vehicles were produced and assigned to three groups (gruppi) CLXI, CLXII and CLXIII, with 8 vehicles per group. They were controlled by the 10th Raggruppamento Semoventi later renamed 10th Antitank Regiment. The unit was supposed to be deployed on the Eastern Front and was indeed assigned to the 8th Italian Army, but then it was transferred first to Calabria and then to Sicily. They fought in Sicily to destruction. by 17 July 1943 the 10th had only 4 runners that were then attached to the 15th PanzerGrenadier Division. By August 6 there were three left and that day it is the last known action. Two of them reached Messina but lack of barges left them stranded there. Possibly one of the two is the one on the APG collection (I think now in Fort Sill).

The 6 Semovente left in Nettuno (30 produced, 24 assigned to the 10th) were captured by the Germans and assgined German designations, but then I do not have more information.

The reference from the Tanks encyclopedia on Aorth Africa service is almost verbatim reported on the English Wiki and attributed to Chis Bishop. I think Sinewgrab it something about sources... Yet I have to found any Italian reference to it. I would say it is an hoax. All semovente used in North Africa (including Tunisia) were 47mm or 75mm.

Nicola Pignato is usually well sourced and is usually basing his work on primary sources. Andrea Santangelo is also extremely good, and again his work on Tunisia and el alamein was based on primary sources... Chris Bishop... well it is one of those survey authors that often relies on tertiary materials. I am not saying he is biased, but certainly he is not a definitive source himself. So my personal and professional opinion is the 90/53 fought only in Sicily.
What's the point of doing one period, when you can do them all.......... In life most people specialise so gradually they know more and more about less and less so eventually they know everything about nothing. I work on a broad front so eventually I'll know nothing about everything.
Richard B.
Posts: 1217
Joined: 16 Mar 2012, 06:54

Re: Useful stuff for Tunisia 1943

Post by Richard B. »

We are in agreement then :D
"“Sir with the compliments of my officer, your shooting was excellent – you killed four of our men”!
Un-named Traillieur to an artillery officer at R`Fakah, Morocco, Feb. 29th, 1908
CarlL
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Joined: 25 Mar 2013, 20:53

Re: Useful stuff for Tunisia 1943

Post by CarlL »

Lovely work Will.

What colour (brand, label colour) did you use for your sand on AFVs?

Did you spray (aerosol or airbrush?) sand paint rather than brush it on?

CarlL
Fire-at-Will
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Re: Useful stuff for Tunisia 1943

Post by Fire-at-Will »

CarlL wrote: 20 Oct 2021, 18:12 Lovely work Will.

What colour (brand, label colour) did you use for your sand on AFVs?

Did you spray (aerosol or airbrush?) sand paint rather than brush it on?

CarlL
The base coat is Revell Desert brown and then dry brushed with a lighter shade 50/50 with white. All hand painted, Air brush is too much effort, especially cleaning afterwards and pumping up the car type again :lol: :lol:
What's the point of doing one period, when you can do them all.......... In life most people specialise so gradually they know more and more about less and less so eventually they know everything about nothing. I work on a broad front so eventually I'll know nothing about everything.
billk
Posts: 188
Joined: 01 Dec 2020, 00:33

Re: Useful stuff for Tunisia 1943

Post by billk »

" The base coat is Revell Desert brown and then dry brushed with a lighter shade 50/50 with white."

Your color is almost an exact match for the Polly S #505320 GER RLM 79 Sand Yellow (now manufactured by Testors but I don't know the #); which has been my go-to German desert color. Good to know in case Testors ever changes the mix. Thanks.
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