air support

Conflicts and wars from the end of the Second World War to the end of the 20th century.
bannockburn bhoy
Posts: 432
Joined: 16 Mar 2012, 07:07
Location: Glasgow

air support

Post by bannockburn bhoy » 31 Mar 2019, 18:09

To what extent is Air support/anti air used on the table. Do gamers generally treat both like they are off table or do they represent both with kit on the table. Also if kit is used does the figure scale match. I have been using my 1/144th scale aircraft in 20 mm games ,for all the time aircraft are over the table ,it works well IMHO ,thoughts please . cheers John

David Reasoner
Posts: 65
Joined: 16 Mar 2012, 07:18

Re: air support

Post by David Reasoner » 31 Mar 2019, 18:32

Most of my WW2 20mm games have featured air support to some degree or another, with the aircraft appearing over the table in the form of 1/72 models.

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I use 1/72 aircraft because it is what I have available, having been a 1/72 aircraft modeller since about 1968. No problem with using smaller scale aircraft models over the table, IMHO.

David

bannockburn bhoy
Posts: 432
Joined: 16 Mar 2012, 07:07
Location: Glasgow

Re: air support

Post by bannockburn bhoy » 31 Mar 2019, 19:33

Thanks David Your kit looks the part ,I have changed to 1/144th scale because that is the scale I have been using for Air Wars games. I gave up some of my 1/72 scale stuff ,but not all of it,i held on to bits like my gliders ,Gigant etc

MrCreak
Posts: 47
Joined: 07 Sep 2016, 16:28
Location: Scunthorpe, UK

Re: air support

Post by MrCreak » 31 Mar 2019, 20:00

I've used on-table models ever since I started wargaming (despite the lack of any rules for such in Grant's Battle!). And always in 1/72 - because I started as an aircraft modeller and because of the selection available in that scale.
Currently about to build a 1/72 Douglas Skyshark[1] (and having conniptions because Mach 2 kits are apparently the dregs when it comes to buildablity).


1 I did, however manage to source some 1/600 scale Skysharks for pure air combat games.
Last edited by MrCreak on 07 Apr 2019, 07:24, edited 1 time in total.

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hammurabi70
Posts: 101
Joined: 01 Aug 2014, 21:05

Re: air support

Post by hammurabi70 » 31 Mar 2019, 20:11

bannockburn bhoy wrote:
31 Mar 2019, 18:09
To what extent is Air support/anti air used on the table. Do gamers generally treat both like they are off table or do they represent both with kit on the table. Also if kit is used does the figure scale match. I have been using my 1/144th scale aircraft in 20 mm games ,for all the time aircraft are over the table ,it works well IMHO ,thoughts please . cheers John
Good question. Gaming in 6mm:
(1) AAA represented for all armies with the unit displayed in the rear areas but potentially involved in ground combat.
(2) Aircraft placed on the table but mainly for aesthetic reasons. They could be treated in the same way as off-table artillery but as with the baseline models of the latter, it is a visual reminder on which status markers can be placed.

We use 6mm aircraft, matching all the other equipment.
If you are such a great writer make me want to logon and respond! [Adapted]

Seret
Posts: 220
Joined: 15 Feb 2016, 15:45
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Re: air support

Post by Seret » 01 Apr 2019, 09:20

bannockburn bhoy wrote:
31 Mar 2019, 18:09
To what extent is Air support/anti air used on the table. Do gamers generally treat both like they are off table or do they represent both with kit on the table. Also if kit is used does the figure scale match. I have been using my 1/144th scale aircraft in 20 mm games ,for all the time aircraft are over the table ,it works well IMHO ,thoughts please . cheers John
That's really going to depend on the scale of game and somewhat on the period. Some nations decentralise SP AA assets all the way down to company level, so if you're playing below that then you're not likely to need them (at least not in the AA role). Company and battalion, you might see them or you might not. Above that it'll depend on your rules. Some abstract away air defence a fair bit (eg: BKC/CWC, Rommel).

As for air support, it changes a lot over the period. By WW2 air support was an operational weapon, tactical air was still in its infancy. If you're playing as a brigade or divisional commander you might be thinking about air support, if you're a platoon or company leader then it's out of your league. By Vietnam in the 60s it was starting to be a thing, and by Afghanistan it's not unusual for a platoon to be calling down strikes from fast air or having top cover from helicopters.

I think helicopters get some decent table time, but it's always a little bit of a shame (though of course completely realistic) that fast movers are on the table so briefly.

UshCha
Posts: 157
Joined: 21 Sep 2016, 12:41

Re: air support

Post by UshCha » 02 Apr 2019, 08:49

We wrote rules for Air support but now never use them. The reason is that while you see in some games aircraft sat on the table for bounds that is well adrift from reality. In Afganistan aircraft came very close in but againt no real AA of any sort except a few AK47's not much of a threat. In cold war it all has to be done in a single pass at high speed. Generally airctaft are km's from the front line if its a serious force.
So the aircraft become off table assets no point painting stuff that will only be on the table say 2 minutes in both real and game time. Again its a decision, is wargameing more about the models than reality?

The other question then is why bother at all? It makes it harder to have an interesting scenario and the stuff never occours on table so scenarios with air support add little to the basic decision matrix over calling artillery support, hence we abandoned it.

Seret
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Re: air support

Post by Seret » 04 Apr 2019, 11:50

I think it definitely can add something to a scenario. For example: a Cold War Gone Hot delaying action. Having fast air screaming in to lay minefields for your outnumbered defenders, or conduct emergency airstrikes to drop bridges before the Soviet armour get across them? Airborne OPs? Desant/Air Cav landing operations, etc? Lots of interesting stuff you can do with non-helicopter air.

CarlL
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Joined: 25 Mar 2013, 20:53

Re: air support

Post by CarlL » 04 Apr 2019, 18:39

David

Are your aircraft stands home made or bought in?
They look good with transparent bases.

CarlL

MrCreak
Posts: 47
Joined: 07 Sep 2016, 16:28
Location: Scunthorpe, UK

Re: air support

Post by MrCreak » 04 Apr 2019, 19:19

I've currently got a T-28 Fennec to build and paint, along with a Strikemaster, a Douglas A2D Skyshark (a What If replacement for the Skyraider) and a Su-25 Frogfoot - all to be used as loitering COIN aircraft.
Maybe not "ultra modern" as most people see it, but...

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