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Re: Cold War Scenario booklet anyone?

Posted: 30 Nov 2018, 23:13
by Russell Phillips
UshCha wrote: 30 Nov 2018, 11:50little thought has gone into this booklet.
I can honestly say that you're wrong about that. The thoughts may not have been in areas that you think they should have been, but there was certainly plenty of thought put into it.
UshCha wrote: 30 Nov 2018, 11:501) No scale to the map. Pointless without it.
Can you tell me where you saw this map? All the maps should have scales. When it was first released, some maps were missing scales, but that should have been resolved years ago.
UshCha wrote: 30 Nov 2018, 11:50Otherwise all the work is left to the buyer.
You and I obviously have different experiences of scenario books. The format was based on scenarios I've seen, and used, in magazines and other scenario books.

It doesn't work for you, fair enough. I'm glad you didn't waste your money - that's the point of a preview, after all.

Re: Cold War Scenario booklet anyone?

Posted: 30 Nov 2018, 23:19
by Russell Phillips
granty101 wrote: 30 Nov 2018, 12:05so if I get banned from this forum, so be it!! :evil:
I have no wish to ban you or anyone else. I would ask you to drop it, though. The criticism was constructive. Whilst I don't entirely agree with all of them, he raised points that I could address if I so chose.

Of course, if Brian were to write a scenario (or several) for the Journal, we'd love to have them. If he wants to write a book full, I'd certainly take a look at it and possibly buy it. But he's under no obligation to do either.

Re: Cold War Scenario booklet anyone?

Posted: 01 Dec 2018, 06:29
by UshCha
Providing a map without a scale is like providing a graph without the axis labels, a schoolboy/schoolgirl (to be PC) error. Surely that is a perfectly logical and constructive criticism. A fully admit clairvoyance is not one my skills.

Re: Cold War Scenario booklet anyone?

Posted: 01 Dec 2018, 06:43
by granty101
Russell Phillips wrote: 30 Nov 2018, 23:19 I have no wish to ban you or anyone else.
Russ, I am voluntarily leaving the Forum and the SOTCW.

Good luck with your book sales and keep writing books.

Grant

Re: Cold War Scenario booklet anyone?

Posted: 01 Dec 2018, 12:10
by cartfc
UshCha you need to look more closely. Every map has a scale 500m marked on it. Given these scenarios are set in 80’s West Germany relatively easily to work out what typical houses are like and what the road net supports etc. I have yet to see a scenario at the level these are that specifies what every road width is, and the construction, strength and cellar status of every building depicted.

Fred.

Re: Cold War Scenario booklet anyone?

Posted: 01 Dec 2018, 21:24
by bannockburn bhoy
All the maps in my copy were scaled out. As a chartered surveyor im pernickety about these things.
Played out seven of the scenarios , which is not a bad return for what it is.
I have yet to see a scenario book that could not be improved upon with hindsight.
Whilst im all for constructive criticism , if this had been aimed at me I would have found the tone insulting . (particularly galling as apparently you haven't even purchased it for the coppers that it costs)
Grant gone now from the forum , another nail in the ..... John , fkd off , from Glasgow.

Re: Cold War Scenario booklet anyone?

Posted: 02 Dec 2018, 00:52
by hammurabi70
I have seldom had a scenario book but I have seen quite a few; admittedly, I am sure modern Cold War requirements have some peculiarities of their own.

1) No scale to the map. Pointless without it.
Don't remember having seen one with a scale but no doubt some have it. It might, or might not, be a defect but seems a minor point, for me.

2) No definition of road width or whether they have hedges walls and or ditches all of which are critical and would effect the balance of the scenario.
Well, the club rules currently favoured in my locale are ROMMEL and BOLT ACTION; I doubt this would trouble them. (I appreciate these are WWII rules but there are no Cold war equivalents to use). I could see these as being significant in CROSSFIRE but do not recall them having been stated in any CROSSFIRE game I have ever played in.

2) No definition of strength of houses, wood brick, stone, cellars or not not.
As before, not pertinent to them. It seems you have some very demanding criteria; I have never seen these laid out in a scenario.

3) Providing contours is a bit pointless we all know we can't achieve real heights. Would have been better to have put crest lines in so we could get the similar views from a lower hill system. Otherwise all the work is left to the buyer.
I don't know how many contours there are but it seems useful to me and would help with line of sight queries. Crestlines are a mixed blessing and it depends on how your rules deal with hills.


All in all not a useful book.
Not useful to you, apparently, and it is very helpful to know why you find it inadequate for your use but I doubt these points would worry any club members of my acquaintance. I shall look out for someone possessing a copy and see what they think, although I doubt I will find anybody as the closest I see at the club is Arab-Israeli battles.

Re: Cold War Scenario booklet anyone?

Posted: 02 Dec 2018, 11:13
by UshCha
Looked at a map that we used for personal game so key is already defined by concent.

Grid 300m squares

https://www.flickr.com/photos/56805875@ ... ed-public/

Widest Road - 2 lane Hedged unlimited weight (100 tonne). This by default includes bridge max practical limit.
Medium roads narrow 2 lane (not 2 tanks wide) 15 tonnne road and bridges.
Brown Track ` lane dirt track 5 tonne - dashed (as OS map) not hedged.
Water features unquaified so as rules, difficult obsticle.
Inside green lines Trees no qualification so 80m visability, difficult going impassabe to high mobility wheeled.
Houses default MG so all shown to scale. Standard maneouvre group so with cellars.

Hills are a bit complex but runs to standard 1 countour heights shown,

Thin dark lines 1/2 contour difficult going hedge.

Thick dark lines Impassible board edges.

Thick Green line effectively wood edge and satart line for game. Woods are default 3 contours high.

So that is what I use as a typical game not written up for a wider audiance.

Generally we do not specify gates in hedges. However in multiple evening games the gates are recorded by photo so that they and any breaches can be accurately recorded.


Therefor I consider outright rants illogical I have only defined what we consider the minimum, perhaps for a wider audiance a more precise key would be needed.

Re: Cold War Scenario booklet anyone?

Posted: 03 Dec 2018, 00:02
by bannockburn bhoy
Just let it go mate ,eh. :roll:

Re: Cold War Scenario booklet anyone?

Posted: 03 Dec 2018, 13:56
by Seret
cartfc wrote: 01 Dec 2018, 12:10 Given these scenarios are set in 80’s West Germany relatively easily to work out what typical houses are like and what the road net supports etc.
I agree, and generally that level of detail is not required for most rule sets.

One of the problems with writing scenarios for general consumption is deciding just what info people will need. Designing it for just one rule set is the easy way; you'll know exactly what info the player will need to get stuck in. But if you're trying to be more generic you won't please everybody. Such scenarios are a starting point, not a "game in a box", as the player or umpire you'll probably have to do a bit of work to turn it into a playable game under the exact requirements your rules.