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Re: Pak40 tow?

Posted: 07 Oct 2018, 11:07
by Richard B.
Seret wrote:
07 Oct 2018, 08:51
Richard B. wrote:
06 Oct 2018, 17:55
My Pak40s attached to infantry units are horse drawn :D
Probably quite rare outside of static divisions, though? Having enough MT to move the artillery around was one of the main things that distinguished a regular infantry division from a static one AFAIK.
Even the best equipped infantry units had horse drawn artillery, Panzerjager units were usually motorised so they could re-deploy quickly if required. I depends on the period of the ar your doing, as i do NWE Normandy to the Rhine - there were no top line infantry formations left :lol:

Re: Pak40 tow?

Posted: 07 Oct 2018, 12:04
by Seret
Richard B. wrote:
07 Oct 2018, 11:07
as i do NWE Normandy to the Rhine - there were no top line infantry formations left :lol:
True. I always find it odd when the Wehraboos set their games that late in the war. The Germans were pretty much on their last legs and gasping after Bagration and Normandy.

Re: Pak40 tow?

Posted: 07 Oct 2018, 12:50
by Richard B.
Well if you wan to play Yanks vs Germans (outside the river lines and mountain defences of Italy), you have to play normandy to the Rhine?

I don`t do Eastern front at all, other than the Spanish Blue Division and the minor Axis allies (which can`t really take on the Soviets) the entire theatre is just too vast for me to get excited with.

I`m not interested in the BIG KATs, or German supermen, I don`t have SS, Fallsjager, Commandos, Rangers or allied Airborne - ordinary soldiers from bog standard units (and the battles they fought) is what interests me.

Re: Pak40 tow?

Posted: 07 Oct 2018, 13:51
by cartfc
It varied from unit to unit, but late war German ID did start to receive a company of panzerjaegers, often Stug’s or Hetzers. Some had motorised tows for their AT guns as well.
I will play with anything, elite, average, raw. Depends what interests me. I have SS as well. Can field a unit of Durch SS Police! I like Eastern front games, particularly the first 2 years. The minor axis are about par with the Soviets as this stage, both fairly poor quality, with inadequate supplies of heavy weapons. Makes for an even match. The summer of ‘44 really bust the German replacement system. The units scraped together for the Bulge were, mostly, a shadow of their formers selves. Not that the allies were doing much better. The Brits and Soviets were running seriously short of manpower and the US Repple Depple while producing adequate numbers of replacements the quality went down dramatically. This was exacerbated by totally green units like the 106th ID that had been raided of its experienced troops on 3 or 4 occasions before being shipped to France.

Cheers Fred.

Re: Pak40 tow?

Posted: 07 Oct 2018, 14:18
by dadlamassu
Standard infantry (non motorised) were established in 1941 with KStN 188b for the 7.5cm Pak 40 and 7.62cm Pak 36(r) shows a 6-horse-team per gun and limber.
KStN 188c, dated 01.12.41:[TE] Infanteriepanzerjägerzug (zu 2 Gesch. 5cm Pak)
Line 23: 2× sechsspg. Geschütze (5cm Pak) + 12× le. Zugpferde
Line 24: 2× vierspg. Munitionswagen (Protzfahrzeuge) + 8× le. Zugpferde
Line 25: 2× zweispg. Munitionswagen (Protzfahrzeuge) + 4 s. Zugpferde

KStN 188d, dated 01.12.41:[TE] Infanteriepanzerjägerzug (3,7cm Pak)
Line 23: 3× vierspg. Geschütze (3,7cm Pak) + 12× le. Zugpferde
Line 24: 3× zweispg. Munitionswagen (Protzfahrzeuge) + 6 s. Zugpferde

This 1944 document for one unit shows the Pak 40 towed by trucks (Opel Blitz?), the Pak 38 by horses and the PanzerSchreks in Panje carts.
Image

Re: Pak40 tow?

Posted: 07 Oct 2018, 14:36
by Seret
Richard B. wrote:
07 Oct 2018, 12:50
Well if you wan to play Yanks vs Germans (outside the river lines and mountain defences of Italy), you have to play normandy to the Rhine?
Sicily, Italy, even North Africa; there's lots of scope for using the Yanks outside of NW Europe.

Italy is a strangely under-gamed theatre. There was far more fighting, with (IMO) more interesting units and terrain than the comparatively short and homogeneous campaign in the NW corner. Normandy/Arnhem/Bulge tend to overshadow so many other interesting campaigns in the late war. When was the last time you saw anyone gaming Dragoon, for example?

Re: Pak40 tow?

Posted: 07 Oct 2018, 15:00
by Richard B.
Seret wrote:
07 Oct 2018, 14:36
Richard B. wrote:
07 Oct 2018, 12:50
Well if you wan to play Yanks vs Germans (outside the river lines and mountain defences of Italy), you have to play normandy to the Rhine?
Sicily, Italy, even North Africa; there's lots of scope for using the Yanks outside of NW Europe.

Italy is a strangely under-gamed theatre. There was far more fighting, with (IMO) more interesting units and terrain than the comparatively short and homogeneous campaign in the NW corner. Normandy/Arnhem/Bulge tend to overshadow so many other interesting campaigns in the late war. When was the last time you saw anyone gaming Dragoon, for example?
Sicily and NA uses totally different organisations and equipment from NWE (plus yellow stars instead of white, etc)

We`ve played several Dragoon games, but i do like to be different :)