Up armoured Shermans

Discussion around the Second World War.
Seret
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Re: Up armoured Shermans

Post by Seret » Fri Jun 22, 2018 5:08 pm

Rumblestrip wrote:
Fri Jun 22, 2018 11:59 am
Anyone out there with a chemistry/physics degree majoring in metal characteristics?
Well, I have a mechanical engineering degree specialising in the failure of stressed materials, and a background in weapons and explosives, which will probably do you.

Extra stuff stuck to the outside of you tank in an ad-hoc way will have a non-zero effect, but closer to the "zero" end than the "non" end. Wood and sandbags would be particularly useless, especially against kinetic rounds.

For shaped charges/HEAT you want some kind of spaced or slotted armour that messes with the standoff distance. So the Soviet "bedspring armour" was probably quite good, spare track links not so much. But if you're going to be carrying them anyway it certainly wouldn't hurt to put them on the glacis.

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Rumblestrip
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Re: Up armoured Shermans

Post by Rumblestrip » Fri Jun 22, 2018 8:41 pm

Seret wrote:
Fri Jun 22, 2018 5:08 pm
Rumblestrip wrote:
Fri Jun 22, 2018 11:59 am
Anyone out there with a chemistry/physics degree majoring in metal characteristics?
Well, I have a mechanical engineering degree specialising in the failure of stressed materials, and a background in weapons and explosives, which will probably do you.
Yeah, that's what I meant😊

Thanks.

Andrew
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David Reasoner
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Re: Up armoured Shermans

Post by David Reasoner » Sat Jun 23, 2018 12:48 am

Gary wrote:
Fri Jun 22, 2018 7:11 am
This up-armour thread reminds me of the British tank commander who was dismayed to find a manufacturers plate on his tank stating ' training purposes only- mild steel'. This meant that he had landed at Normandy, crossed France and Belgium in an in an unarmoured vehicle.........

(From memory a Cromwell I believe...)
I recall a similar tale (but can't remember where I read it...) of a "non-ballistic" (i.e. mild steel) M48 training tank somehow getting mixed in with a batch of normal tanks and ending up in combat in Vietnam.

David

Gary
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Re: Up armoured Shermans

Post by Gary » Sat Jun 23, 2018 11:04 am

There was a discussion ( somewhere! I can't find it now!) about the effectiveness of Sherman Jumble with added armour plate and interesting photos of range tests against various AT guns etc.......
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Rumblestrip
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Re: Up armoured Shermans

Post by Rumblestrip » Sat Jun 23, 2018 1:08 pm

Gary wrote:
Sat Jun 23, 2018 11:04 am
There was a discussion...about the effectiveness of Sherman Jumble...
That was the one with the old mattress, rocking horse and chamber pot strapped to the front with second hand kids' clothes wasn't it?

I'm pretty sure Patton had a view on it...

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Andrew
PS love autocorrect 😊
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granty101
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Re: Up armoured Shermans

Post by granty101 » Sat Jun 23, 2018 3:57 pm

Gary wrote:
Sat Jun 23, 2018 11:04 am
There was a discussion about the effectiveness of Sherman Jumble
I think Gary meant the Sherman Auto Jumble, where you could pick up spare track links, odd bogie wheels, etc, to 'personalise' the look of your "pristine, straight out of the showroom" Sherman Tank.

Grant
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Phil_Gray_260
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Re: Up armoured Shermans (heat rounds)

Post by Phil_Gray_260 » Sun Jun 24, 2018 8:07 am

Something picked up from youtube.... so large pinch of salt.. but...

WW2 HEAT rounds relied on conventional fusing to detonate on contact. This was a problem as the speed at which the round deformed on contact meant that by the time the fuse had triggered the shaped charge warhead the shaped element of the charge had deformed so as to negate the Monroe effect it wwas supposed to produce?

Post war adoption of piezo electric fuses allowed the sped of detonation to exceed the speed of physical deformation.

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Re: Up armoured Shermans

Post by Gary » Sun Jun 24, 2018 10:32 am

Don't you just love auto correct......anyhoo.....found the other discussion now...

https://www.thewargameswebsite.com/foru ... -shermans/
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Seret
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Re: Up armoured Shermans (heat rounds)

Post by Seret » Mon Jun 25, 2018 10:55 am

Phil_Gray_260 wrote:
Sun Jun 24, 2018 8:07 am
Something picked up from youtube.... so large pinch of salt.. but...

WW2 HEAT rounds relied on conventional fusing to detonate on contact. This was a problem as the speed at which the round deformed on contact meant that by the time the fuse had triggered the shaped charge warhead the shaped element of the charge had deformed so as to negate the Monroe effect it wwas supposed to produce?

Post war adoption of piezo electric fuses allowed the sped of detonation to exceed the speed of physical deformation.
They certainly had trouble with fuzing. I know the early PIATs were pretty dodgy, and I think the early bazookas, too.

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