Pak40 tow?

Discussion around the Second World War.
Richard B.
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Re: Pak40 tow?

Post by Richard B. » Sun Oct 07, 2018 11:07 am

Seret wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 8:51 am
Richard B. wrote:
Sat Oct 06, 2018 5:55 pm
My Pak40s attached to infantry units are horse drawn :D
Probably quite rare outside of static divisions, though? Having enough MT to move the artillery around was one of the main things that distinguished a regular infantry division from a static one AFAIK.
Even the best equipped infantry units had horse drawn artillery, Panzerjager units were usually motorised so they could re-deploy quickly if required. I depends on the period of the ar your doing, as i do NWE Normandy to the Rhine - there were no top line infantry formations left :lol:
"“Sir with the compliments of my officer, your shooting was excellent – you killed four of our men”!
Un-named Traillieur to an artillery officer at R`Fakah, Morocco, Feb. 29th, 1908

Seret
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Re: Pak40 tow?

Post by Seret » Sun Oct 07, 2018 12:04 pm

Richard B. wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 11:07 am
as i do NWE Normandy to the Rhine - there were no top line infantry formations left :lol:
True. I always find it odd when the Wehraboos set their games that late in the war. The Germans were pretty much on their last legs and gasping after Bagration and Normandy.

Richard B.
Posts: 296
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 6:54 am

Re: Pak40 tow?

Post by Richard B. » Sun Oct 07, 2018 12:50 pm

Well if you wan to play Yanks vs Germans (outside the river lines and mountain defences of Italy), you have to play normandy to the Rhine?

I don`t do Eastern front at all, other than the Spanish Blue Division and the minor Axis allies (which can`t really take on the Soviets) the entire theatre is just too vast for me to get excited with.

I`m not interested in the BIG KATs, or German supermen, I don`t have SS, Fallsjager, Commandos, Rangers or allied Airborne - ordinary soldiers from bog standard units (and the battles they fought) is what interests me.
"“Sir with the compliments of my officer, your shooting was excellent – you killed four of our men”!
Un-named Traillieur to an artillery officer at R`Fakah, Morocco, Feb. 29th, 1908

cartfc
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Re: Pak40 tow?

Post by cartfc » Sun Oct 07, 2018 1:51 pm

It varied from unit to unit, but late war German ID did start to receive a company of panzerjaegers, often Stug’s or Hetzers. Some had motorised tows for their AT guns as well.
I will play with anything, elite, average, raw. Depends what interests me. I have SS as well. Can field a unit of Durch SS Police! I like Eastern front games, particularly the first 2 years. The minor axis are about par with the Soviets as this stage, both fairly poor quality, with inadequate supplies of heavy weapons. Makes for an even match. The summer of ‘44 really bust the German replacement system. The units scraped together for the Bulge were, mostly, a shadow of their formers selves. Not that the allies were doing much better. The Brits and Soviets were running seriously short of manpower and the US Repple Depple while producing adequate numbers of replacements the quality went down dramatically. This was exacerbated by totally green units like the 106th ID that had been raided of its experienced troops on 3 or 4 occasions before being shipped to France.

Cheers Fred.

dadlamassu
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Re: Pak40 tow?

Post by dadlamassu » Sun Oct 07, 2018 2:18 pm

Standard infantry (non motorised) were established in 1941 with KStN 188b for the 7.5cm Pak 40 and 7.62cm Pak 36(r) shows a 6-horse-team per gun and limber.
KStN 188c, dated 01.12.41:[TE] Infanteriepanzerjägerzug (zu 2 Gesch. 5cm Pak)
Line 23: 2× sechsspg. Geschütze (5cm Pak) + 12× le. Zugpferde
Line 24: 2× vierspg. Munitionswagen (Protzfahrzeuge) + 8× le. Zugpferde
Line 25: 2× zweispg. Munitionswagen (Protzfahrzeuge) + 4 s. Zugpferde

KStN 188d, dated 01.12.41:[TE] Infanteriepanzerjägerzug (3,7cm Pak)
Line 23: 3× vierspg. Geschütze (3,7cm Pak) + 12× le. Zugpferde
Line 24: 3× zweispg. Munitionswagen (Protzfahrzeuge) + 6 s. Zugpferde

This 1944 document for one unit shows the Pak 40 towed by trucks (Opel Blitz?), the Pak 38 by horses and the PanzerSchreks in Panje carts.
Image
Alan
[url]http://www.morvalearth.co.uk/[/url]

Seret
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Re: Pak40 tow?

Post by Seret » Sun Oct 07, 2018 2:36 pm

Richard B. wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 12:50 pm
Well if you wan to play Yanks vs Germans (outside the river lines and mountain defences of Italy), you have to play normandy to the Rhine?
Sicily, Italy, even North Africa; there's lots of scope for using the Yanks outside of NW Europe.

Italy is a strangely under-gamed theatre. There was far more fighting, with (IMO) more interesting units and terrain than the comparatively short and homogeneous campaign in the NW corner. Normandy/Arnhem/Bulge tend to overshadow so many other interesting campaigns in the late war. When was the last time you saw anyone gaming Dragoon, for example?

Richard B.
Posts: 296
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 6:54 am

Re: Pak40 tow?

Post by Richard B. » Sun Oct 07, 2018 3:00 pm

Seret wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 2:36 pm
Richard B. wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 12:50 pm
Well if you wan to play Yanks vs Germans (outside the river lines and mountain defences of Italy), you have to play normandy to the Rhine?
Sicily, Italy, even North Africa; there's lots of scope for using the Yanks outside of NW Europe.

Italy is a strangely under-gamed theatre. There was far more fighting, with (IMO) more interesting units and terrain than the comparatively short and homogeneous campaign in the NW corner. Normandy/Arnhem/Bulge tend to overshadow so many other interesting campaigns in the late war. When was the last time you saw anyone gaming Dragoon, for example?
Sicily and NA uses totally different organisations and equipment from NWE (plus yellow stars instead of white, etc)

We`ve played several Dragoon games, but i do like to be different :)
"“Sir with the compliments of my officer, your shooting was excellent – you killed four of our men”!
Un-named Traillieur to an artillery officer at R`Fakah, Morocco, Feb. 29th, 1908

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