Let us not forget how awful the SCW was

Discussion around early wars and conflicts including World War 1
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Richard B.
Posts: 1215
Joined: 16 Mar 2012, 06:54

Let us not forget how awful the SCW was

Post by Richard B. »

Here is the news for today, Sunday,
August 15th, 1936:

The Battle of Almendrajelo (which has seen Republican militia withstand a siege of more than a week) has ended in a Nationalist victory followed by a massacre. After settling fire to most of the town and killing the defenders the Nationals then rounded up and murdered about 1,000 civilians.

This massacre comes at the same time as the execution of what is alleged to be several thousand people (amounting to around ten percent of the city's population) after yesterday's fall of Badajoz to rebel troops under General Yague. When asked about this by American journalist John T. Whitaker Yague replied:
"Of course we shot them", he said. "What do you expect? Was I supposed to take 4,000 reds with me as my column advanced, racing against time? Was I expected to turn them loose in my rear and let them make Badajoz red again?"

In other news:
British prime minister Stanley Baldwin has announced an embargo of the sale of arms to either side in the civil war in Spain.
"“Sir with the compliments of my officer, your shooting was excellent – you killed four of our men”!
Un-named Traillieur to an artillery officer at R`Fakah, Morocco, Feb. 29th, 1908
bannockburn bhoy

Re: Let us not forget how awful the SCW was

Post by bannockburn bhoy »

No grey areas in a civil war ...no neutrality either , your either for and if not...deemed against.
Shocking atrocities meted out by both sides.
Just read about the Irish civil war , was actually taken aback by some of the things they did to each other , especially as most of them were former comrades in the 1916 uprising .
Spain seems to have been particularly harsh , currently reading a book by Christopher Othen...
Franco's International Brigades.....John
wonder how that embargo went Richard
CarlL
Posts: 1468
Joined: 25 Mar 2013, 20:53

Re: Let us not forget how awful the SCW was

Post by CarlL »

Good post Richard.

It is good to remember that in Spain an elected government was overthrown by a military coup that went on to shoot the opposition (liberal / radical or red in political persuasion) wherever the rebels set foot. A wound that's only been addressed in recent years.

Lest we forget has application to many wars, some fought for little more than political elite's feeling slighted others for perhaps more noble causes like protecting others freedom or democracy; all not played by any rules unlike our metal / plastic miniatures' wars.

CarlL standing on a 'soap box' somewhere....
Richard B.
Posts: 1215
Joined: 16 Mar 2012, 06:54

Re: Let us not forget how awful the SCW was

Post by Richard B. »

bannockburn bhoy wrote: 15 Aug 2021, 18:22
wonder how that embargo went Richard
The embargo by Britain and France was pretty extensive, weapons and equipment bought by the republic were stopped and impounded by the French at the border.

Obviously ships smuggled stuff in and the Russians transported stuff in their vessels in international waters along the Med or via Atlantic routes, the embargo had no powers to stop/search and seize! Of course the Rebel blockade also prevented supplies to the Republic getting though! The Americans actively supported the Rebels, their intelligence services transmitting information of suspected vessels leaving US ports directly to the Rebel command, I`ve read of at least two merchant vessels from either the US or Mexico stopped and seized on the high seas by Rebel naval vessels (Spanish crewmen all executed).

I was just reading that in 1938 after the Rebel Aragon offensive "the drive to the sea" which effectively cut the Republican held territory in half, the French suddenly allowed the Catalan border to open which allowed the Catalans access to a huge stockpile of arms, planes and ammunition which had already been paid for but was held in customs!! This according to the author probably prolonged the struggle a further six months!
"“Sir with the compliments of my officer, your shooting was excellent – you killed four of our men”!
Un-named Traillieur to an artillery officer at R`Fakah, Morocco, Feb. 29th, 1908
bannockburn bhoy

Re: Let us not forget how awful the SCW was

Post by bannockburn bhoy »

just read an account of the estimated overall losses in the SCW as being in excess of 500,000 :shock: , at least half of which were civilians. i really had no idea that there was that level of casualties , truly appalling losses , particularly in civilian deaths and the deaths of prisoners. John
Richard B.
Posts: 1215
Joined: 16 Mar 2012, 06:54

Re: Let us not forget how awful the SCW was

Post by Richard B. »

bannockburn bhoy wrote: 11 Oct 2021, 14:12 just read an account of the estimated overall losses in the SCW as being in excess of 500,000 :shock: , at least half of which were civilians. i really had no idea that there was that level of casualties , truly appalling losses , particularly in civilian deaths and the deaths of prisoners. John

Pretty shocking isn`t it - both sides guilty of crimes against civilians, though it does appear the Rebels has a far more direct and organised approach to clearing out suspected (or even neutral) citizens once they secured a town.
"“Sir with the compliments of my officer, your shooting was excellent – you killed four of our men”!
Un-named Traillieur to an artillery officer at R`Fakah, Morocco, Feb. 29th, 1908
bannockburn bhoy

Re: Let us not forget how awful the SCW was

Post by bannockburn bhoy »

It appears that franco was a real vindictive bstrd , especially after hostilities were over.
The level of executions is really appalling. Civil War has definitely got a different dimension to it.
I was in Split , Dubrovnic ,and Zagreb , in 1990 , and there wasn't even the remotest hint of what must have been bubbling away under the surface.
Grant101
Posts: 25
Joined: 28 May 2021, 18:22

Re: Let us not forget how awful the SCW was

Post by Grant101 »

bannockburn bhoy wrote: 13 Oct 2021, 01:56
Civil War has definitely got a different dimension to it.
It would appear that there is nothing 'civil' about any war :(

Grant
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