troubling times

Discuss the society, wargaming, and other topics of interest
sandsmodels
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troubling times

Post by sandsmodels » 31 Jul 2019, 08:27

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Richard B.
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Re: troubling times

Post by Richard B. » 31 Jul 2019, 17:13

Total over reaction by the school, but hey they are now expected to police their charges :?
"“Sir with the compliments of my officer, your shooting was excellent – you killed four of our men”!
Un-named Traillieur to an artillery officer at R`Fakah, Morocco, Feb. 29th, 1908

granty101
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Re: troubling times

Post by granty101 » 31 Jul 2019, 18:18

No disrespect meant to any teachers who are reading this forum...but where the f**k is your common sense at??? :evil:

Grant
Vot is your Name? Don't tell him Pike!!!

CarlL
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Re: troubling times

Post by CarlL » 31 Jul 2019, 20:28

sadly, (my guess is that) this seems to be a consequence of Statutory guidance, on "Prevent duty guidance for Scotland and England and Wales".

which cn be found at https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... y-guidance.

This makes it a legal duty to report radicalisation of the left or right or religious fervour etc..

I dont know these guys, father and son, in the video, I regret what they have been put through due to our hobby touching on the realities of a world, where war and violence are real, and propaganda can stir these realities. Yet others cannot recognise what we do (in our hobby) is not violent. I suppose its a bit like the old arguments about toy guns breeding violence?

It seems likely the above legal duty (and not just the possibility of 'left wing teachers' being OTT about a lad wanting to make toy soldiers representing a fascist cause) is the cause of their distress? Well that's my hypothesis.

Not something I will dwell on as it risks "politicising" the Forum.

Needless to say I have behaved just like this young lad by making flags and toy soldiers to carry them for many a cause thats historical or fictional, but which if viewed in the wrong way could lead to others thinking, "he is a fascist" "he is a marxist" "he is an islamist" etc., and like this young man getting sack from college, many a 'public servant', with wargaming interests, could be seen as a radicalisation risk, get reported and suspended or sacked from work in public sector. Its is compulsory in many workplaces now to attend such training and as I noted a legal duty to report radicalisation risks.

It seems to me that we have entered a new kind of totalitarianism, based on fear, (I grant linked to real events on occasion); often linked to xenophobia or lack of tolerance of others rights to choose to be different. But I stray too far.

I hope this dad and son regain their gaming mojo and enjoy their right to be different, ie be gamers who enjoy the 'dark arts' of VBCW, a totally fictional world that hopefully has not hurt anyone unlike the mass killings in the real Spanish Civil War or the real Eastern front etc..

Thanks for posting.
CarlL

bannockburn bhoy
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Re: troubling times

Post by bannockburn bhoy » 31 Jul 2019, 23:28

What really does my head in ,is he amount of this PC bullshit that now effects our everyday lives ,not being predicated on any genuine concerns or aims but just purely for the sake of PC .

While a whole raft of BS like this is being actively prosecuted , people that have fought against the armed forces of this country are being allowed to return to it. Its one helluva society we have created for ourselves.

Boris Johnson at Faslane he has control over WMD,s FFS.

cartfc
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Re: troubling times

Post by cartfc » 01 Aug 2019, 15:04

Symptomatic of the times we live in. I work in A&E and have done for many years. We used to have a Paediatric liaison nurse who would come to the department and review all the notes of the under 5’s attendances. We also left out any notes for older children we had concerns about and she would look at them and follow up with GP, Health Visitor or Social Services as necessary and would let us now what happened. A few years ago she was replaced by a child protection lead and shortly after a whole department. None of them ever come down and visit or give feedback. We only hear from them when their multipage forms aren’t filled in correctly. They also run the child protection mandatory training courses. They hate my guts as every time I go for my training I ask awkward questions about what the evidence is that supports all the form filling and box ticking, to which they have no answer as they never get around to auditing it. It is a whole industry and anyone who dares to challenge it gets shouted down. I was accused of bullying once for asking questions about the value of what they were doing. I recently got a communication from them berating me for not filling in the bit on the form about evidence of radicalisation! I wrote back pointing out the child was 6 months old FFS! What evidence did they expect me to find! The lunatics have definitely taken over the asylum!

Cheers Fred.

dadlamassu
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Re: troubling times

Post by dadlamassu » 01 Aug 2019, 16:15

The video only gives one side of the story. The whole thing could probably have been sorted by meeting the head teacher. That said we are all bound by, and schools and many other public organisations in particular have additional duties imposed by a number of laws relating to child safety and protection as well the Governments Prevent Strategy.

Imagine, if you will, that the child had actually been radicalised by an individual or organisation while participating in his chosen game. Not by playing the game but by certain nefarious individuals misusing it as a platform to source recruits. The teacher suspects that the child is in danger but is advised by friends who play the same or similar game and are not radicalised that "it is just a game". So the teacher does not report the possible radicalisation. The young person then goes out as a suicide bomber and kills a couple of dozen people. Who would we blame for not bringing it to the attention of the security services? The teacher or school of course, but not the well-intentioned gamers who advised the teacher.

The teacher was damned if he/she did or did not report it.

Section 26 of the Counter-Terrorism and Security Act 2015 places a duty on certain bodies, listed in Schedule 6 to the Act, to have, in the exercise of their functions, “due regard to the need to prevent people from being drawn into terrorism”. The Scottish guide is here (there is a similar one for England and Wales)
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... and_V2.pdf

The legislation in Scotland where I volunteer is found
https://www.gov.scot/publications/natio ... d/pages/6/

You might find it amusing to harass people delivering training and who are trying to prevent you from breaking the law or who are advising you to comply but bear in mind that you may be subject to special rules and your job is on the line if you break them.

cartfc
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Re: troubling times

Post by cartfc » 01 Aug 2019, 22:37

I am not trying to harass them I am trying to get them to do the proper audit and establish the effectiveness or otherwise of the procedures they have put in place. Without that we don’t know if what we are doing is effective or not. For reason they seem very resistant to this idea, which is odd as clinical effectiveness is a basic cornerstone of medical practice, but doesn’t seem to apply to child protection procedures. And it is certainly not amusing, it is deadly serious, as I suspect our current procedures are more to make ourselves feel better than achieving any improvement in child safety. It creates a problem with signal to noise ratio, which makes it hard to pick up the really important bits. As far as the legislation is concerned I have been doing this for 30 years and am fully conversant with child protection legislation, the mental health acts, mental capacity, radiation protection, care of hazardous substances and all the other myriad bits of legislation that we operate under.

Cheers Fred.

bannockburn bhoy
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Re: troubling times

Post by bannockburn bhoy » 01 Aug 2019, 23:23

Fred my wife is a manager in the NHS and railed against the loss of the paediatric liaison nurses together with the box ticking exercise that replaced them, she did so to the point that she was warned of disciplinary action against her.
Like yourself she subsequently continued to press on the validity of the replacement service .
She saw the nurses as front line hands on staff that were passionate about what they were doing being replaced by effectively an aggressive bureaucracy of no value and not fit for purpose, as it turned out , as per with these things ,to no end. Warts and all (no pun intended) I still think thanks to dedicated people like yourself the NHS is a tremendous institution.

Could we all now get this involved in what this forum is supposed to be all about..it would be nice . :D

Seret
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Re: troubling times

Post by Seret » 02 Aug 2019, 10:06

That's a hell of a storm in a teacup, how on Earth did it ever escalate as far as getting the police involved? We are of course only hearing one side of the story, there could be more to it.

I don't go in for any of this "oh the world we live in today!" nonsense. Idiots have always existed and been throwing spanners in the works for sensible people. It's not a new phenomenon.

The real tragedy of course is that it's driven these guys to take up 40K.

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