A BEF Question...can anyone help please?

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granty101
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A BEF Question...can anyone help please?

Post by granty101 »

Hello all,

I'm currently in a bit of a 'debate' on a Facebook group forum about the British Expeditionary Force, and their use of British railway coaches in 1939/40 in France.

I say no British railway companies supplied coaches for use 'overseas', but I do know that the War Department took some Great Western Railway Dean Goods 0-6-0 tender locomotives with them.

I have searched the usual on-line sites and forums, but no avail.

Any help would be gratefully appreciated. Many thanks in advance.

Grant
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ianrs54
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Re: A BEF Question...can anyone help please?

Post by ianrs54 »

No idea Grant, sorry
Any thing bigger than 6 is TOO BIG

Fire-at-Will
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Re: A BEF Question...can anyone help please?

Post by Fire-at-Will »

A quick check on ikipedia found this
At the outbreak of the Second World War, the War Department requisitioned 100 of these engines from the GWR and the GWR had to hastily reinstate some engines that had been recently withdrawn. The requisitioned engines were fitted with Westinghouse brakes and 10 were fitted with pannier tanks and condensing gear. All were painted black with their WD numbers painted on. In December 1940, the War Department requisitioned a further 8 engines.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GWR_2301_Class
What's the point of doing one period, when you can do them all.......... In life most people specialise so gradually they know more and more about less and less so eventually they know everything about nothing. I work on a broad front so eventually I'll know nothing about everything.

granty101
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Re: A BEF Question...can anyone help please?

Post by granty101 »

Fire-at-Will wrote:
06 Jul 2020, 20:05
A quick check on ikipedia found this
At the outbreak of the Second World War, the War Department requisitioned 100 of these engines from the GWR and the GWR had to hastily reinstate some engines that had been recently withdrawn. The requisitioned engines were fitted with Westinghouse brakes and 10 were fitted with pannier tanks and condensing gear. All were painted black with their WD numbers painted on. In December 1940, the War Department requisitioned a further 8 engines.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GWR_2301_Class
Hello Will,

I know about the locomotives that they took over, but my main query is about coaches. The person I am in 'debate' with on Facebook says some LMS Stannier designed coaches were shipped over to France in 1939/40...I disagree, but can't find any evidence, photographic or written, to back up his claim. I personally think he's talking shite, but I'd rather have definitive proof before I say he's talking b*llocks!! :lol:

Grant
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Russell Phillips
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Re: A BEF Question...can anyone help please?

Post by Russell Phillips »

granty101 wrote:
07 Jul 2020, 05:34
I know about the locomotives that they took over, but my main query is about coaches. The person I am in 'debate' with on Facebook says some LMS Stannier designed coaches were shipped over to France in 1939/40...I disagree, but can't find any evidence, photographic or written, to back up his claim. I personally think he's talking shite, but I'd rather have definitive proof before I say he's talking b*llocks!! :lol:
I understand your desire to have evidence, but you're trying to prove a negative, which is difficult at best. Has he put forward any evidence to back up his claim?
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CarlL
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Re: A BEF Question...can anyone help please?

Post by CarlL »

Grant,
I am with Russell on this.
You can only test out a theory (in this case a claim for use of certain railway carriages) if the proponent of the theory / claim cites their evidence so it can be scrutinised.
It could be evidence thats true but mis-interpreted or misrepresented. EG War Department taking one or small number of carriages to use as General headquarters, rather than many or hundreds for transport of troops, their munitions, and other logistics.
The evidence could be confused with a previous episode like carriages used in Great War (if any) and being transposed to Second World War?

With the British army being better equipped with road transport in 1939 than 1914, you would expect less reliance on rail. But if planners in War Dept thought (like the French ministeries did) that it would be another long war of attrition, then there may have been plans to use rail. In which case looking for records of old railway companies may be best place to start?
Although you would think that IWM would have records in their archives of such requisitioning too?

All best my friend,
CarlL

granty101
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Re: A BEF Question...can anyone help please?

Post by granty101 »

Russell Phillips wrote:
07 Jul 2020, 08:25
Has he put forward any evidence to back up his claim?
hello Russ,

He has a very 'dodgy' photo of an end of a carriage he claims is a Stannier design...but the elliptical roof design and corridor connection shown could come from any number of (European) carriages.

Other than the ambulance trains of WWI, I'm very dubious of any English coaches having been shipped to France after 1918, and most certainly none being shipped in the early stages of WWII. I will go and post a message on the RM Web site...more knowledgeable railway people than me hang out there ;)

Grant
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granty101
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Re: A BEF Question...can anyone help please?

Post by granty101 »

CarlL wrote:
08 Jul 2020, 07:14
Grant,
I am with Russell on this.
You
Hi Carl,

The bloke in question appears to be a 'know all know nothing' type :evil:
He's made mistakes before, but as I can't say for definite carriages weren't shipped abroad, I'd rather keep my powder dry until I can prove him wrong.

I shall go pose the question on the RM Web forum, and see if any knowledgeable (railway) people can say for definite.

Grant
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